Do nice guys finish last?

[Jamie French]

Obviously.

PROTIP: Self deprecation won't save you on these boards. This isn't 8Mile.
You suck plain and simple.

Nah, English....
I was TOO LAZY for Comm.

[goatman]

Obviously.

PROTIP: Self deprecation won't save you on these boards. This isn't 8Mile.
You suck plain and simple.

And how do you KNOW that I'm seeking SALVATION, Jamie?

I could just be standing on the accelerator to see how fast I can go before the inevitable crash.

I may "suck" but I don't let it define me or color my perception of the world.

I do the best I can to be the best "me" I can be, treat others fairly & justly, & not take myself too seriously!

[goatman]

8 Mile. Hmm. Interesting you brought that up...

Real Hip-hop died with 'Pac & Biggie. 1996.
The "Boy Wonder" from Detroit & those Clowns from New Orleans were but the first carrion-feeders to pick at the corpse.

[Jamie French]

Changing the subject won't work either. I'm gonna bash you till you disappear from this thread.

8 Mile. Hmm. Interesting you brought that up...

Real Hip-hop died with 'Pac & Biggie. 1996.
The "Boy Wonder" from Detroit & those Clowns from New Orleans were but the first carrion-feeders to pick at the corpse.

[goatman]

Changing the subject won't work either. I'm gonna bash you till you disappear from this thread.

Then, you're really not giving me much incentive to leave the thread.

[Ben]

Why do nice guys finish last? Or is it just me? I was taught to treat people the way i wanted to be treated. I treat women with respect and it seems im always getting looked over for a bad boy. And then later they break up with em because he wasnt what they thought he would be. So am i doing something wrong? I just dont know.

You can only be yourself.
And, too, the notion of so-called masculinity is a social construct. Not a scientific one. And, of course, it's influenced by the culture. I mean, we learn what it means to be masculine. We all watch Sly Stallone movies, Arnie Schwarzenegger movies. So the culture teaches us what it means to be a so-called man. (Imagine if males were taught that to be masculine means to be: moral, kind and caring.)
Instead we're taught that we have to be aggressive, violent, in control. That's the social construct of masculinity.
Anyway, also... there are plenty of women &/or transgender women that gravitate to men who are kind and sensitive. I mean, in terms of long-term relationships, well, things change. The so-called bad boy isn't overly attractive.

[Jericho]

A thread about being nice turns into an argument...Welcome to HA!

[goatman]

It wasn't changing the subject, Jamie, it was weaving an example into the larger tapestry.

Style. What is style? Describe style. Who's to say what's stylistically correct?

The critics? They make their living off bashing other people's work, dashing their dreams. For they have none of their own. Think about it, if a wise man offers you a great truth of life that enriches you and enlightens, does it matter if he's dressed in a Brooks Brothers suit or homespun rags? The critics will pick him to death, regardless. And the message will be lost on them because they cannot see beyond.

The imitators? Aka the "copycats"? Well, they're simply proof that the original was right on the mark. All they did was chew up the work and regurgitate it for mass consumption(and mass profits.) If I took you out to a fancy restaurant, ordered a $20 steak, chewed it up for you and regurgitated it in your mouth, would it still taste as good?

Don't even get me started on the producer-mogul type profiteers. All they care about is profits. Aesthetics, beauty, truth, and "art for art's sake" be damned, it's all lost on them. Making sells, moving units, & profit margins make their eyes gleam. "Sell more shit, make more money, pay less taxes, damn the consequences!" Sound familiar. Trust me, I've been around a lot of slick salesman in my day; once upon a time, I was WELL on the path to become one! If there's a market for dogshit--and there probably is, somewhere--, they're selling it to any and all buyers and convincing them it smells like roses. When I trained people, I used to tell 'em " A good salesman can sell charcoal to the sinners in Hell; a GREAT ONE will convince 'em it's ice cubes!"

No, it's the innovators, the iconoclasts, the rebels who throw the rule book out and say "FUCK CONVENTION! This IS WHAT I SEE, FEEL, and EXPERIENCE in this moment and this is the means by which I CHOOSE to express it, fuck if you follow me!" It'll scare more than a few off( most people like conformity after all). But maybe the point will get across to one or two; and they tell one or two, and so on... Or not. At least the artist/speaker/author got their point across, rather than let the moment pass in frustration. From void and or nothing they bring forth something.

(How this relates to Real Hip-hop--no quotes"", it was REAL!)
When the movement began almost four decades ago, it wasn't big-league record companies or Top 40 radio stations that created it. It was people who had "nothing" comparatively speaking, who created "SOMETHING" from that nothing. And that something was as BEAUTIFUL as the nothing from whence it came was STARK, UGLY, CHAOS, & VOID. It was AMERICAN HISTORY--unplugged, unfiltered, and un-condensed--repeating itself. As it was in the BELLY of the SHIPS. As it was in the FIELDS. As it was in the CHURCH PEWS, the JUKE JOINTS, & the JAZZ CLUBS. As it was at the CROSSROADS & the BUS STATIONS & THE LUNCH COUNTERS. So it was in the South Bronx, Queens, Philly, Chi-town and South Central. It was people telling the world "Yes, we EXIST! NO, we will not GO QUIETLY. This is OUR SURROUNDINGS & OUR CIRCUMSTANCES. We don't have Dan Rather or Walter Cronkite, but THIS IS THE NEWS!" They told what was happening and what was happening behind the happenings(aka, the "Ulterior motives", the glad-handing, the back-room deals & the maneuvering behind the scenes.) They TOLD THE TRUTH TO POWER, which is what any good artist/rebel does; they threw down the gauntlet to those in charge. And their audience LOVED them for it! Because it was for them--to hell with the outsiders! The were continuing the winds of protest from a generation before.

But to quote one of my favorite movies: "Successful can be as formidable as the strongest adversary."(Conan the Barbarian) They got TOO successful and attracted the same bottom-feeders that did in Jazz, Rock, & the Blues. The POWERFUL could not believe that these NOBODIES with their bootleg tapes & basement record labels could accomplish so much! HOW DARE THEY! WHO WERE THEY? And most importantly, how could they make some money where money mattered? Where some saw CONTROVERSY, the moguls saw COMMERCIAL UNITS MOVED. Where others saw resistance, they saw DOLLAR SIGNS. Where others saw THE STRUGGLE & THE PROJECTS, the moguls saw burgeoning markets in the SUBURBS. They had more money and access than some people had seen in their entire lives. And they used it: pre-sales, dollars, movies, drugs, cars, women, sex. They appeased appetites & fluffed egos. They had a proven track record that NO performer could resist. And so, the marketeers & their cronies, flunkies, & stooges moved in....

and a movement was lost.

Now--if you're still with me-- how does this tie in with the theme of "Do Nice Guys Finish Last?"

If you let someone else define you, be it television, Hollywood movie, commercial, advertisements, marketeers, the internet, facebook, twitter, "the cool kids" from 10th grade(who usually haven't matured beyond 10th grade--20 years later), the World, the Flesh, the Devil & Uncle Charles tell you you have to be like somebody else or follow somebody else's "rules to success" or buy brand X or be-in-a-relationship-&-fuck-the living out of boy/girl that looks like[fill in the blank] in order to validate yourself/ your sense of self...they've already won. If you're nice and can hold your ground being nice & staying true to yourself, you've already won. Fuck if "Hot-Girl" always goes with "Bad-Boy" & you're left holding the roses; PLANT A ROSE GARDEN. Don't fixate yourself on what "Bad-Boy", "Jock-Boy", "Alpha-Male/Female Movie Star" & Mr. & Mrs. Jones have that you don't... Odds are they're just as miserable as you THINK you are, and in twice as much trouble and twice as much debt. Love & Sex should not be a "zero-sum, winner take all" game; I don't care how many commercials or salespeople hawk how much shit to prey on peoples' fears of "I'm a loser! I'm gonna end up lonely!" (And I KNOW whose Garden my feet are planted in while I'm spouting this shit.)

Be you. Innovate. Know Yourself. That's the FIRST RULE.

You are NOT your JOB.
You are NOT your HOME.
You are NOT your SALARY, FICA, or CREDIT SCORE.
You are NOT your CREDIT LIMIT.
You are NOT what you can BUY.
You are NOT the HIGH-END DESIGNER LABELS you WEAR.
You are NOT what you DRIVE.
You are NOT who you HANG WITH.
You are NOT who you are SEEN WITH or WHERE you're seen with them.
You're NOT what TRENDS on TWITTER.
You're NOT WHO YOU KNOW ON FACEBOOK.
You're NOT WHO YOU FUCK..., and you SHOULDN'T TRY TO USE ANY OF THE ABOVE IN ORDER TO FUCK so you can feel BETTER about yourself.

you're YOU. BE YOU.

my opinion.

[goatman]

A thread about being nice turns into an argument...Welcome to HA!

STRANGE FRUIT indeed, my friend...

[Yeah]

Not trying to be hurtful but I think you need to boost your self-esteem. It isn't about 'them' at all and everything to do with you. Respect yourself and demand respect from others and you'll notice how you'll be treated differently by women AND men.

Agree. I've fought this fight off and on for years. For some reason I find it hard to respect myself. Probably due to bouts of low self esteem. Also hard to take praise from people too. My self esteem has yo yoed as my weight has over the years. But I keep trying to raise myself up and dust off and keep trying to learn to respect myself more so I can get it in return from both women and men. Thanks