Students Protest Transgender Teen’s Use of Girls’ Locker Room- What Are Her Rights?

[broncofan]

You just typed a bunch of bullshit, I am beginning to really think you're a troll, then you motha fuckas got the nerve to try and flip it back on me about me trolling, fucking serious?

I actually think you're too moronic to have a conversation with. I will occasionally be addressing your bigoted statements, but not answering questions that have already been addressed within my posts.

[jamesedwards]

LESTER IS ON FUCKING POINT!

Let me show yall some thing, those same young girls and their parents will now say "YOU SEE THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE THOSE FUCKING TRANS PEOPLE THEY ARE GOING AFTER OUR CHILDREN AND THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEMSELVES, YOU GIVE THEM AN INCH AND THEY TAKE A FUCKING MILE".

Now you have a fire, that's now turned into a bigger fire and will keep burning.

Lila should have never violated the locker room! Period!

[jamesedwards]

I actually think you're too moronic to have a conversation with. I will occasionally be addressing your bigoted statements, but not answering questions that have already been addressed within my posts.

You don't know the difference between a bigot and a realist! You think you can't have a convo with me because you want your way and that's it, when the facts are laid on the table, you can't fucking deal with them!

Again you didn't answer that shit! You can talk and write books about me that has nothing to do with this thread yet you got to get back to me later? LOL WTF!

Why did Lila violate those girls locker? Answer that shit, you don't have to have a convo, it's a question and you provide the answer, you can't look the shit up on wikipedia! See your fucking emotions is flaming up and you can't handle my logical question at hand!

[jamesedwards]

BroncoFan am I typing to fast for ya ? LOL

[broncofan]

Why did Lila violate those girls locker?

I was reading something else. I don't know what you mean by violating a locker. She did not violate a locker. She used the locker room because she identifies as female and wants to live the rest of her life that way. I see a lot of arguments that if the lgbt community tries to encourage a more inclusive solution, there will be a backlash. I am really familiar with this argument as it is ubiquitous in response to pro-civil rights arguments.

It is great to encourage education and incremental change where more dramatic change is difficult for others to accommodate. But in this case we actually have the largest state by population in this country that has this as their mandate. I think your insinuation that her using the female locker room is a "violation" as you repeatedly say is abusive and bigoted. That's all. Any other questions?

[lifeisfiction]

I haven't seen any really solid points. He says the difference between the examples Fred provided and the other groups of people are that we know where we stand on those other issues because the law is established. But there was actually a point in time where we did not know where we stood on those issues as we had segregated bathrooms. The argument basically says that we should favor laws that have been around a long time and are well established (a traditionalist argument), that the rights of the majority should trump those of a minority regardless of the rights at stake, and that you cannot force people to be more inclusive. Is that true? Have we ever forced people to be more inclusive in this country or just waited for them to become more educated? I would say we do that frequently. If people do things without legislation then the legislation is hardly necessary. Again, it's not the disagreement I mind so much but the claim that others were straying from topic.

I think I am being told I should focus only on what he's said regardless of what he's said it in response to. Sorry but that's just not how things work. If for instance, I said I disagreed with the actions of the NAACP on one issue and someone responded directly to me with a barrage of racism, I would probably address it. Or if someone had a criticism of the anti-defamation league (an organization that combats anti-semitism) and I agreed with their criticism, but their criticism also included all sorts of vulgar statements I would not demand we only talk about the ADL. I appreciate he wants to talk about a sub-set of the issues, but he also urged other people to remain on topic. I was only reminding him of what that topic is.

I don't think the issue is segregated bathrooms. You are dealing with children. Not adults. It is having a child deal with the body issues when we all know they don't understand it. The bathroom was put in place to help the children adjust. If you had a male friend, who said to you after knowing him for years he was transitioning, while you would support him it will take you some time to adjust. This is you has an adult, not some little girl who of course is enduring her physical and social change. I know Lila wants acceptance, but she has to give others the time to understand and to be educated. To deal with the situation in mature manner.

Its child is trying to understand their own sexual identity and others. We can't thrust something upon them they don't understand or feel comfortable with. We have to help the understand over time. If you want kids to understand you have to help educate them on various things. I mean schools do have sex education, because they don't know their own bodies and many of the changes.

[broncofan]

The other problem in talking with you James is that if anyone makes an argument that's even remotely abstract you are completely lost and think they are engaging in witchcraft or something.

BTW, if anyone is curious why I said I thought Lester was being disingenuous it is because it is not my experience that someone who is concerned about transphobia and homophobia responds to a subject laced with it by ignoring it and then telling others they should too. Then insisting on the importance of the subject he wants to discuss and why it should be pre-eminent over other ones in the first post of the thread.

[jamesedwards]

You see what has happened is, some of you run in cliques, and that's fine, then you try to topple me with your bullshit and not handle the topic at hand. Lester and a few comes along and say hey what about the girls rights, then you try to diss me, but then Lester keeps writing brilliantly and articulates himself well as do I and now you are fucked up. You're caught up in your emotions and emotions never win, facts do.

Yall tend not to see how fucking serious this is, the parents of those children could get seriously out of control because they are out there, one of them could easily lose it by getting a fucking gun and taking Lila's life. No yall wanna talk about my penmanship, how I don't support TGirls, etc, the fuck are you talking about? Really!

You type all sorts of bullshit, long books on me but can't answer one question!

[broncofan]

I don't think the issue is segregated bathrooms. You are dealing with children. Not adults. It is having a child deal with the body issues when we all know they don't understand it. The bathroom was put in place to help the children adjust. If you had a male friend, who said to you after knowing him for years he was transitioning, while you would support him it will take you some time to adjust. This is you has an adult, not some little girl who of course is enduring her physical and social change. I know Lila wants acceptance, but she has to give others the time to understand and to be educated. To deal with the situation in mature manner.

I didn't say the issue was segregated bathrooms. The original example given to Lester was whether the subjective comfort level of the majority can justify the exclusion of someone who is less enfranchised. He responded that in those other examples the law is clear. I was only saying that the law has not always been clear. When you are trying to construct a rule, I don't think that much deference should be given to the status quo, otherwise you will never have reform.

Anyhow, I am not saying it is not an adjustment for people to understand what a transgender girl is and to accommodate them. But I think high school students can understand why she has transitioned and what her reasons are for wanting to use the bathroom. I just think that the discomfort they have in sharing a locker room with her is not as significant as the discomfort of forcing the mtf transsexual to use the men's room or to be completely isolated, even if there are a lot of them and only one of her.

[jamesedwards]

You see this is what I am talking about. Check this out dude, I asked you a question
and you continue to write garbage. Fuck me and fuck what I rep, answer the question. Give a logical answer to your question. If I don't agree I can tell you logically and factually why I don't agree.

Here is my point once again.

Lila was given a locker room by the school facility, Lila violated the young girls by going into their locker room.

You don't understand the point of violation? Well let me help you understand. Lila violated because of the point LILA WAS GIVEN A PLACE TO CHANGE! Meaning there was a point from the school facility to say "Here Lila you can change here and you won't have any problems" yet Lila took it upon Lila's self to go beyond Lila's OWN locker room given to Lila by the school to go into the girls Locker room, that's a violation! So much so children walked out! Are you telling me you don't understand that? You make it seem as those I am making up some territory band against Lila when I didn't the school did!

DEF.
VIOLATE, verb (used with object), violated, violating.
1.to break, infringe, or transgress (a law, rule, agreement, promise, instructions, etc.).
2.to break in upon or disturb rudely; interfere thoughtlessly with:
to violate his privacy.

So let me ask again:
Bronco Fan, WHY DID LILA LEAVE THE LOCKER ROOM GIVEN TO LILA BY THE SCHOOL AND VIOLATE IT TO GO INTO THE GIRLS LOCKER ROOM? DO YOU THINK IT WAS WRONG FOR THE YOUNG GIRLS TO WALK OUT OF SCHOOL?

The other problem in talking with you James is that if anyone makes an argument that's even remotely abstract you are completely lost and think they are engaging in witchcraft or something.

BTW, if anyone is curious why I said I thought Lester was being disingenuous it is because it is not my experience that someone who is concerned about transphobia and homophobia responds to a subject laced with it by ignoring it and then telling others they should too. Then insisting on the importance of the subject he wants to discuss and why it should be pre-eminent over other ones in the first post of the thread.