Students Protest Transgender Teen’s Use of Girls’ Locker Room- What Are Her Rights?

[jamesedwards]

Bronco Fan you're so fucked up right now that you still haven't answered my question. The fact that you even looked at my avatar and said its photo shopped is even more ridiculous! If you ever seen that TGirl that's her real dick size so dammmmmmmm! You're wrong!

BF you focus on he wrong shit! That has absolutely nothing to do with the thread its self and now people are seeing it, the more you type the more they see that you're not on subject. You can diss me all day but answer the question about the girl! A logical one at that!

It seems you have to sit back and think on it being you're emotionally caught up and you want to go against what I said, you see how easy and free it was for me to give you my stance? If yo have a stance to agree with what Lila did then say it, but let it be logical!

Everyone is waiting for what the Big BroncoFan has to say. Lets see if you can think as well as you claim you articulate yourself on this forum.

[lifeisfiction]

This is literally saying that you would prefer to credit the subjective views of both parties regardless of the values they reflect. Therefore, if a woman wants to obstruct a gay couple's marriage she should be able to, because what matters are not the values we inculcate but how she feels about it. Yes, if someone is upset that a transgender woman is using their lockerroom because they've been told that the person is a pervert, then my concern is with the reality and not their subjective view of it.

I like your example, but it does not apply to this situation. This is not a situation of varying views. This is an issue of having a child grasp with the idea of seeing someone naked in front of them with completely different anatomy. To expect a teenage boy or girl to feel comfortable. It is why there is separate changing rooms to help children feel comfortable about their bodies. To not feel so out of place.

To say them you have never had this situation before and we did not help you understand this situation. In fact, we know you are still adjusting to this situation, so deal with it. That is not how you deal with children. They don't fully grasp everything. If Lila wants to change in the girls locker room they should have worked with the children on situation so they would not feel out of place. It is not a matter of whether Lila or girls or right. Didn't anyone pick up the girls had known and accepted Lila when she identified as gay male. It was when she after knowing her for years she recently identify as trans and they must adjust over night? Impractical.

Educate a child and they will understand what is going on. Thrust it upon them and there should no surprise if they reject it.

[broncofan]

Bronco Fan you're so fucked up right now that you still haven't answered my question. The fact that you even looked at my avatar and said its photo shopped is even more ridiculous! If you ever seen that TGirl that's her real dick size so dammmmmmmm! You're wrong!.

Right about now I am wondering whether someone logged into my account and said that to you. I don't recall mentioning the photograph in your avatar.

Of course if you attribute other people's posts to me it seems like I'm all over the place.

[jamesedwards]

I have the perfect solution for the whole situation.

Let Lila have the girls locker room and give the girls Lila's locker room. Now if Lila goes into that locker room where the girls are then Lila is purely violating as I said, and now just want to start shit! That means Lila is trying to force people to agree with what Lila is doing! That would be definitely a solution.

It won't work with Lila getting naked in front of girls with balls and tits, and then what if another Lila comes out? That person will want to go into the locker, and so on. Its not going to happen where Lila will be in that locker room.

Is Lila getting SRS?

[jamesedwards]

Fucking best quote of the month!!!!!! Astonishing!

I

Educate a child and they will understand what is going on. Thrust it upon them and there should no surprise if they reject it.

[fred41]

Okay, ...enough with the children stuff, they're young adults. Lila's 17 ...I'm guessing her former locker room mates are about the same age. I believe you can join the military at that age and experience the horrors of war. A year later you can become a law enforcement officer in many counties. People at that age understand plenty. There are posters on this site that are half my age that understand shit that it took me decades to understand. This is exactly the time you educate people on stuff like this. We should protect young people (actually all people) from violence...not education.

[jamesedwards]

Right about now I am wondering whether someone logged into my account and said that to you. I don't recall mentioning the photograph in your avatar.

Of course if you attribute other people's posts to me it seems like I'm all over the place.

Ok if you didn't say it, I apologize, I am not going to go back to prove it but I know it was said. so If it wasn't you, then I apologize! I stand corrected.

And I hope no one broke into your account cause I can't deal with two of you motha fuckas

[broncofan]

I like your example, but it does not apply to this situation. This is not a situation of varying views. This is an issue of having a child grasp with the idea of seeing someone naked in front of them with completely different anatomy. To expect a teenage boy or girl to feel comfortable. It is why there is separate changing rooms to help children feel comfortable about their bodies. To not feel so out of place.

To say them you have never had this situation before and we did not help you understand this situation. In fact, we know you are still adjusting to this situation, so deal with it. That is not how you deal with children. They don't fully grasp everything. If Lila wants to change in the girls locker room they should have worked with the children on situation so they would not feel out of place. It is not a matter of whether Lila or girls or right. Didn't anyone pick up the girls had known and accepted Lila when she identified as gay male. It was when she after knowing her for years she recently identify as trans and they must adjust over night? Impractical.

Educate a child and they will understand what is going on. Thrust it upon them and there should no surprise if they reject it.

It's no big deal that we disagree. I understand what you're saying. I do actually think it's a situation of varying views. I think a lot of the concerns of the children are based on myths they've been told by their parents about the motivations of the ts. If the high school children have not ever dealt with the situation then educating them would be to tell them, "this is someone who was born male, but identifies as female. She wants to change in your dressing room and we have no reason to believe she is any danger to you." As you know, locker rooms are not only for children but adults use locker rooms at gyms. The reason we have locker rooms if that people in general feel more comfortable changing only with members of the same biological sex. I'm not saying their adjustment would be trivial but I think you underestimate their ability to understand Lila's situation and be accepting of her physiological differences. Just to underscore that a lot of the discomfort may actually be based on mythology and not just self-consciousness, it is interesting to note that the conflicts seem to occur in places of the country that are more riddled with myths about lgbt members.

I don't agree that if you mandate something it will make people reject it. Actually, the only reason anything is mandated is because at least one person rejects it. I'm not saying there is no adjustment period, but I think it's educational to tell high school students that they should be tolerant of other's differences. If others think it's too early, I understand. I definitely feel adult ts women should be able to use female facilities. Some would disagree when it comes to those who are under 18...as I understand the concept of parent autonomy and that they do have recognized rights to control the upbringing of their children which is why it's such a divisive issue.

[Lester316]

This is literally saying that you would prefer to credit the subjective views of both parties regardless of the values they reflect. Therefore, if a woman wants to obstruct a gay couple's marriage she should be able to, because what matters are not the values we inculcate but how she feels about it. Yes, if someone is upset that a transgender woman is using their lockerroom because they've been told that the person is a pervert, then my concern is with the reality and not their subjective view of it.

Er broncofan you seem to be twisting some people's word a fair bit..

lifeisfiction made the following statement which you quoted along with your thoughts above: 'There in lies the problem. You feel it is not as big of a deal. I might even want agree with you, but I prefer to exclude how I feel and step into shoes of both parties.'

Exactly how does saying you would step in the shoes of both parties equate to what you said?: 'Therefore, if a woman wants to obstruct a gay couple's marriage she should be able to, because what matters are not the values we inculcate but how she feels about it.'

That wasn't lifeinfiction's point in fact (and if they correct me I will stand corrected); I think the point that was made was about measuring points of view on both sides of a debate and maybe as I have advocated doing the most sensible practical thing you can in response. It certainly doesn't mean listening to one person's view only which actually equates to arguments which sympathize with Lila's circumstances and feelings and then put into action just what she wants not others. Her thoughts and feelings are as important as anyone else's but they should not supersede the thoughts and feelings of those people in importance.

I would also like to mention you have misinterpreted or twisted my words on occasion too. I did not suggest everyone should follow my point, or insist that it should be 'pre-eminent' over other ones in the first post in the thread. I pointed out I felt a valid point was being lost among other arguments and gave my opinion on that point. Everyone here can discuss whatever points they feel are valid that's what a debate is but please don't misconstrue what I have said or accuse me of being disingenuous (as you did earlier).

Taking other people's words and putting your 'spin' on them is unfair, it's takes somebody's opinion and changes it and fails to take any consideration for how they think and feel. Doing something similar in not valuing other people's thoughts and feelings is something that many here have expressed as a huge issue when related to the situation regarding Lila. In fact to quote you once more:

' I just think that the discomfort they have in sharing a locker room with her is not as significant as the discomfort of forcing the mtf transsexual to use the men's room or to be completely isolated, even if there are a lot of them and only one of her.'

How can you or any of us equate or value one person or group's feelings (ie: their discomfort) as not as significant as another's? That would demand knowing the operation of their mind(s) and I'm pretty sure you aren't Professor X. In a circumstance where we cannot equally measure feelings, discomfort and understanding as a society we do what is logical (ie: provide Lila with a locker room that she and other transgender students can use) until such time as society debates the situation and those we elected pass laws which make things clear.

That might take a while, it could well be too slow, it certainly could do with speeding up; but forcing people to capitulate and do something they disagree with isn't a constructive way to deal with things. History has proven that logical debate can solve issues; it's why quite rightly people like Martin Luther King are held up as paragons who inspired change and why dictators like Stalin or Hitler who force ideologies upon people are rightly recognized as truly evil. Now of course we are not talking about a situation as extreme as some of those examples but if they teach us anything it is that democracy and the voice of rational people causes real change not force.

If we want people like the parents and children from Lila's school who object to understand and accept such change simply saying 'this is the rule, get on with it' will not work. If anything it will only harden their views in opposition.

[jamesedwards]

True and I stated that they understand that is why they walked out. What they don't like is having a boy who says he is a girl come into their locker room and seeing a cock and balls. Their parents are teaching them one way and the TG society is trying to teach them another, this adds confusion. They are teens lets not get it twisted, they don't have everything figured out as say to a 40 year old person. You can join the miliary at 17 if a parent signs for you. 18 you can sign up without the consent of the parent. Being that's so just because you're 18 don't mean you fully understand the world or you are a responsible adult. I don't know to many if not none, 17 teen year old people who own a house. Millionaires maybe, not normal everyday teenagers, they are still children to me. Their minds are still developing and at that stage they are trying to figure out who they are.

Okay, ...enough with the children stuff, they're young adults. Lila's 17 ...I'm guessing her former locker room mates are about the same age. I believe you can join the military at that age and experience the horrors of war. A year later you can become a law enforcement officer in many counties. People at that age understand plenty. There are posters on this site that are half my age that understand shit that it took me decades to understand. This is exactly the time you educate people on stuff like this. We should protect young people (actually all people) from violence...not education.