Would it be better if all gay guys transitioned?

[amberskyi]

I refuse to listen to someone who wants to argue that apples and potatoes are the same lol

[bluesoul]

I refuse to listen to someone who wants to argue that apples and potatoes are the same lol

cool, but you forgot to thumbs down my last post.

[danthepoetman]

God! I so wish there could be even more women! I wish women could multiply and completely outnumber us, guys! Ms Dazzler, even if your basic thinking on the question seems a bit shaky, I find the idea soooo lovely, not unlike yourself, if I might say! <3

I don’t think there shouldn’t be any doubt anymore that transsexualism is biological. It is a form of intersexuality. For someone to go through so much, basically, it has to be for a good reason and this reason is a deep, deep sense of inadequacy which appear very early in the life of transsexuals, very often as early as gender identity normally develops in children. More than 30 or 40 different conditions have been identified as causes of, or relating to, intersexuation. Sexual hormones are every bit as important in foetal development as it is at puberty in a very delicate process during which many things can happen to change the whole future of an individual. Numerous and very important neurological studies have shown that a specific region of the brain is involved in it. The sexually dimorphic nucleus is an area close to the hypothalamus, that has been found to be similar in m2f and in females and dissimilar in males. It is a region closely related to sexual functions and sexual life. Transsexuality is not a whim or a fantasy, or some kind of purely psychological oddity, with which you could play with and which you could modify or negotiate with, although it most definitely includes some degrees. If one doesn’t suffer from such feeling of inadequacy, he shouldn’t go through such process; if it’s only a matter of social pressure or practical purposes, such a drastic change should of course not be undertaken. I think the long term consequences for the person would then probably be dramatic, eventually. Need it to be said that your sex is an enormous part of who you are. You don’t change it lightly without putting your very sanity at risk…

LOL! Indeed, Krissy. I would definitely stay home all day every day to play with myself...

The only reason one should ever consider transitioning is because you want to play with boobs every second of every single day, no matter who they belong to. Period.

[Kayden Harley]

why do you care what someone wants to do with their life to achieve happiness?

Because after all the blood, sweat and tears we've put into making sure our gender is taken seriously, the last thing we need is a bunch of clowns running around telling people they're 'Transgender' when in reality they're just gay guys who want to sleep with 'str8' guys.

The ONLY reason we are trans is because we couldn't possibly live another day in our previous (and wrong) bodies.

oh and now because you inserted "am trans so i know more" suddenly my opinion is null and void right? why not argue your point if you disagree and leave your gender out of it. you don't see me saying "am a guy so i have the upper hand on this subject"

if you want to be treated fair. act like it

... because the fact that we have gone through the transition in question means we have been exposed to the therapy & decades of research that supports our argument (i.e. 1st hand experience, facts, scientific evidence). Now tell us, what do YOU bring to the table to support your argument other than your opinion?

[mac.B]

There is definitely a serious problem if we see these things as binaries, on/off, one or the other. All species exhibit variation in every parameter, and as soon as you try to squeeze everyone into two sizes of shoes, you get problems. There are people on here who openly have stated that they are indeterminate in a binary sense as far as their gender status is concerned.

Some people like that may find themselves pressured towards transition when in fact they are more happy being in between.

What is important is not social or peer expectation, but whether the individuals concerned can have fulfilled, satisfying lives as the people they feel themselves to be. That's no-one else's call but their own.

Thats why I made it a point to say "some" and "not all". Ive met femboys on both sides of the spectrum.

[littletwink]

I admit to being part trans, part straight, and part gay. There is no transition for me to make.

[GroobyKrissy]

Well this thread took a rather serious turn.

So, can we at least all agree that the OP (not OP'er) isn't a real, serious question since it will never actually really happen? There isn't suddenly going to be this mass exodus of effeminate gay guys (or masculine gay girls) suddenly seeking a transition process to a different gender or identity. So, the question is hardly worth the discussion, which I think the jokers here understood immediately. The question of "Would it be better...?" is, in fact impossible to determine since you can hardly quantify "better". To do that, you would have to determine the time frame, the social mean of the time, numbers, statistics, populations, etc. etc. etc.

That being said, and hopefully understood that the question itself has no answer... to move onto the core discussion:

I have said this before and I will say it again. The parties involved here will absolutely NEVER agree because they're operating on and with a different set of definitions. You must first define your terms in order to have a serious and meaningful conversation about "legitimate" (a terrible word... "legitimate rape" anyone?) transition, who has the "right" to do it, and even what "Transsexual" means.

Once the definitions have been laid out then come to some agreement on what they are, even for the purposes of this ONE discussion, and argue the points of your case from there. Quite honestly, from observation and participation here at HA, not very many people are able to even do that without throwing up the hands in frustration (proven in this thread and quite a few others).

Bluesoul actually has a very good argument, despite the opposition. It is not one that I actually agree with in its entirety, but his main point, drawn out to its logical conclusion bears far more weight than the others voiced. He is simply stating that one person cannot determine, either on moral, ethical, or logical grounds (notice the omission of "emotional grounds"), if another person has a "legitimate" (again, not the correct word but I'll use it because it has been introduced) reason to transition or not. My disagreement to this would be simply that you don't know the moral and ethical standings of the people involved to make that statement.

If anyone wants to actually engage in a serious CONVERSATION about this here, I'm game. Of course, you'll have to actually read my posts, answer the questions posed, and agree to shake hands at the end. And obviously, that goes for me as well.

I'm just writing up blog posts and checking in every now and then so fire away.

[rockabilly]

Another mass exodus? You could hear the techno beats echoing across the desert. It could spark a new religion.

[GroobyKrissy]

Another mass exodus? You could hear the techno beats echoing across the desert. It could spark a new religion.

Probably more realistic to say, if that happens... a new gender. Another one.

[bluesoul]

Because after all the blood, sweat and tears we've put into making sure our gender is taken seriously, the last thing we need is a bunch of clowns running around telling people they're 'Transgender' when in reality they're just gay guys who want to sleep with 'str8' guys.

The ONLY reason we are trans is because we couldn't possibly live another day in our previous (and wrong) bodies.

what would you even do to stop them? didn't MacShreach already state (i believe in another thread as well) that in some other countries gay men will regularly dress up when they need to then go back to being gay men as it suits them?

i'm sure this happens in the western world as well. it even happened with britney markham's brother. was he going around saying not to take him seriously because he just needed to make a couple of bucks? no. in fact, britney markham later came on and said they were laughing about the matter.

also- what about this thread? clearly there are men who like transsexuals who'd also happily indulge femme guys. so if gay men won't accept them, why not have them transition here- they'd obviously not be thrown out by the guys

whenever someone here starts a thread asking if he's gay- one of the most popular answers is who cares right? labels mean nothing blah blah blah. well, obviously not. because everyone wants to be straight