Revoking Transgender Civil Rights

[broncofan]

The greatest checks on majority rule are the bill of rights, the amendment process, and our Judiciary. The electoral college effectively means that the President is elected by states rather than the public broadly. It is not a check on majority rule since there are rarely "faithless electors" and I'm not sure we would want there to be since they would simply be supplanting their judgement for that of the citizens of each state. And there would be no criteria for them to refuse to cast their vote for the politician chosen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...s_Constitution

Of course, amendments are passed by their own political process but once they are they can't be overridden by laws at the state or federal level but can only be repealed by subsequent amendments.

As a protection against the tyranny of the majority the electoral college accomplishes nothing, mostly because electors simply cast their vote in line with the popular vote of each state and when they don't might just as likely act out of vanity rather than a civic duty that has been prescribed for them.

[broncofan]

And I understand there is the argument that it somehow increases fairness by giving greater power to rural states but it just takes power away from voters and doesn't weight each vote equally. Doesn't the head of the executive branch of our federal government represent all U.S. citizens? Why shouldn't their votes all count equally?

[filghy2]

Liberals here in the UK do more harm than good, they really are the lowest, most pointless, form of society. If I said on here what I'd like to do with them all, he would get his friend the moderator to ban me again!

Aren't you a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn and the UK Labour Party? In the USA that would make you a liberal.

I see that your existence on this forum is now virtually limited to insincere brown-nosing of people you professed to have nothing in common with just a few months ago. Such are the sour grapes of letting personal grudges consume you. Enjoy!

[rabbitfufu]

transsexuals, crossdressers and etc. have better rights today than ever and it will continue as we become more liberal as a world. Women can wear dresses above the ankle, Black people can vote. We as a society are changing,though some people want equality NOW. It does not work that what. First comes acceptance in which the transsexual community is heading in. BE patient. When I grew up and was caught crossdressing by my father, I had the backside of my body beat to a pulp. My father told me next time I was caught I would be taken to the police station and registered as a sex offender and for the rest of my life any time I moved I would be needing to register again with them or go to prison. This was in the mid sixty's. So please folks ,Be patient and do this slowly do not rush society, as history shows you will succeed.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=Nick Danger;1858750]

I'm sorry, Stavros, but I just don't feel sorry for people who make poor choices, reap the consequences, then spend the rest of their lives bitching about it.

-Again, you avoid addressing the key point that was raised by the OP: Rights. The Obama Presidency extended Rights to Americans that are being taken away, for no other reason than that they do not identify as being either Male or Female where the Administration we believe will make it illegal to be identify as anything other than Male and Female -it has nothing to do with the choices Transgended Americans make, be it to smoke a joint, get drunk, hang around town at all hours of the day and night or go to college and get a degree, teach and write books: it about the Right to define onerself as an American the way you want other Americans to respect. Is it so much to ask? How much does it cost compared to all other social policies, if it cost anything at all?
But it is not just about Rights, it is also Freedom, because that is what Rights confer, so this is an administration planning to take away a citizen's freedom, and the only reason for it is due to the resentment that Republicans have that a Black man entered the White House as President and they intend to reverse everything he did, so that 'It will be as if the Obama Presidency never happened', a sort of policy genocide.

[Stavros]

In fact, Republicans have received a majority of votes at only one Presidential election since 1988. So it is arguable that if the USA had a fair electoral system none of this would be happening, and nor would we have to put up with Nick Danger's relentlessly smug crowing.

With regard to fairness, rather than cite the Electoral College, it is the growth of a tactic in States where they purge voter rolls, and change their electoral law to make it harder or even impossible for citizens to register to vote. The example of Lakota voters in North Dakota where they could swing the result is relevant here, not least the petty rules that say you must sign forms in Blue ink as Black and Green are not acceptable. Millions of Americans are now denied the basic right to vote, and that is simply not fair.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...te-senate-race

[filghy2]

It's not an either/or question. All of these things (including gerrymandering of House districts) distort democracy away from the wishes of the majority. And in the future we may well see outright manipulation of votes, given Republicans have refused to do much about vulnerability of systems to hacking. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45680490
Instead we had a commission into Trump's bogus claims about illegal votes, which predictably came up with nothing.

[broncofan]

Aren't you a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn and the UK Labour Party? In the USA that would make you a liberal.

One might think. But the outcome might not be an accident either. We had someone on this forum who was on the fringes of the left a while ago who would post Russia Today articles before Trump supporters began trusting the outlet. He would frequently claim there was no difference in the political parties because he believed they were both beholden to establishment.

I've come across quite a few Corbyn supporters who were unsure of whether Hillary would be worse than Trump because she was the establishment candidate and Trump brought a fresh perspective. Also the reasoning went she is a warmonger and Trump promised to be an isolationist. They both believe their guy is sabotaged by the media and that there is some exculpatory version of events the media is not reporting, which is to say they think the media exists to shill for their guy. So they're bound by a core of resentment to objective truth. They're both also oddly unmoved by war crimes committed by Assad but probably for different reasons.

This is another subject, of course.

I agree with Stavros that voter suppression is a more fundamental issue to work out. Removing the electoral college would require a Constitutional amendment and as long as its existence is seen to favor one party, that party will be reluctant to remove it. It has a distorting effect, but voter suppression also does and can be fought in the interim in courts and through trying to pass legislation to expand the National Voting Registration Act.

This was the case that took place in June of this year. If Democrats are more successful in the mid-terms one option is to work on expanding the National Voting Registration act. Another is to work diligently to make sure it is not violated. Sadly, Gorsuch' vote made this a 5-4 decision. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...6-980_f2q3.pdf

[Nick Danger]

I'm sorry, Stavros, but I just don't feel sorry for people who make poor choices, reap the consequences, then spend the rest of their lives bitching about it.

-Again, you avoid addressing the key point that was raised by the OP: Rights. The Obama Presidency extended Rights to Americans that are being taken away, for no other reason than that they do not identify as being either Male or Female where the Administration we believe will make it illegal to be identify as anything other than Male and Female -it has nothing to do with the choices Transgended Americans make, be it to smoke a joint, get drunk, hang around town at all hours of the day and night or go to college and get a degree, teach and write books: it about the Right to define onerself as an American the way you want other Americans to respect. Is it so much to ask? How much does it cost compared to all other social policies, if it cost anything at all?
But it is not just about Rights, it is also Freedom, because that is what Rights confer, so this is an administration planning to take away a citizen's freedom, and the only reason for it is due to the resentment that Republicans have that a Black man entered the White House as President and they intend to reverse everything he did, so that 'It will be as if the Obama Presidency never happened', a sort of policy genocide.

I'm not avoiding any issues, Stavros. I've stated how I feel. I am pro-rights for everyone; black, brown, gay, female, transgender, young, old, EVERYONE. I firmly believe that all these groups of people should have the exact same rights I have, up to and including the right to say, "Hey Bob!" when they get pulled over by a local police officer and most likely not get searched or even get a ticket because Bob knows they're a productive and law-abiding citizen; the right to walk into any local business establishment and get preferential treatment because everyone there knows they're going to buy something if they've gone to the trouble of going shopping; the right to have their mail delivered to the little space between their storm door and front door on rainy days because they leave the postman a hundred-dollar bill in the mailbox every Christmas; the right to be greeted with a wave and smile by everyone on the street because they've gone to the trouble of presenting a non-offensive appearance and established a reputation for being friendly; the right to be left alone to live in peace. And every other right that I have and other people don't have because...

Well there's the rub right there - the "because." I have un-infringed rights because of one thing only: how I behave. My rights have nothing to do with my race, my gender, my religion, or any other factors that people frequently cite as the underlying reason for their problems. My rights all derive from the fact that I am a good citizen who makes an effort to be an approachable, contributing member of the community. Nothing more than that.

When you get these marginalized minorities complaining about their lack of rights, I can tell you within a few seconds why they are having problems. Every time. "Gee, could it be you didn't get that job because you have what appears to be a fishing lure hanging out your nose and a huge tattoo on your neck? Oh, it's because you're a woman? Okay." Or "Wow, you got arrested and all you did was explain to the police officer why he has no jurisdiction over you while you refused to identify yourself? Shocking." Or the real shocker, "Oh dear, I can't believe that police officer shot that two-time ex-felon when all he did was refused to comply with a legal order while reaching into his pants. Must have been because he was black."

Fact is, we all have the same exact legal rights. Even Frances the transgender has the same rights under her legal name of Frank. Obviously that's something that needs to change, but that's not changing right now, so let's focus on the fact that FRANK does indeed have all of his legal rights intact, no matter what contortions FRANCES must suffer.

But legal rights are not the end-all of how we get treated by our fellow man, and that includes how we are treated by the authorities. You want to walk around looking like a freak? You're gonna be treated like a freak. You want to cop an attitude? You're gonna get treated like a person with no respect for the law. Want to live beyond your means? You're going to get treated like the deadbeat you are. Want to run down the USA? You're gonna get treated like the enemy.

There's a reason it's called "society." It's a social gathering of people with a common purpose. You want to set yourself up outside that common purpose, you're going to be treated like an outsider. Your rights will be ignored in favor of teaching you a valuable lesson about how to be an asset to your fellow man instead of a liability.

Anyone complaining about his/her rights is a non-conformist. And you might say, "But I have the right to be a non-conformist." Of course you do. And the rest of society has the right to put pressure on you to conform. This is what liberals perceive as a violation of their civil rights. In fact, it is society doing you a big favor, giving you some solid information that you should take to heart. If you don't, that's okay too - America's been dealing out misery to non-conformists for centuries, and they can keep pounding on you until you're beat into the ground like a railroad spike with no harm done to the larger purpose.

So yeah, you know, civil rights. I enjoy mine. I enjoy them enough to make a few minor sacrifices in the area of conforming to society in order to fully enjoy them. If you don't make those same sacrifices, then you shouldn't be unduly surprised when your disrespect toward your fellow citizens is brought to your attention the hard way.

[lifeisfiction]

Wow, what a lot of assumptions.