Progressives Gone Wild

[broncofan]

You want to talk about racist countries, let's talk about Israel. Japan, China, both Koreas, every Middle Eastern country, so racist and so completely uncriticized for it.

I've planned to go to Israel but have never actually been. I've heard that there is a lot of racism there, not just in their human rights violations against Palestinians but also in Israeli society. Problems with racism in Israel wouldn't signify racism is not a problem here. Nor would it mean I have to make any assumptions about random Israelis or Americans I meet.

I have by the way been irritated by other countries calling out racism in the U.S. when it's obvious they're hypocritical or just being opportunistic. Have you seen the Iranian Ayatollah on twitter? You think I give a shit about what he has to say about anything? Do you think I give a shit about what Putin says about human rights or whatever idiot mouthpiece the People's Republic of China has talking when they literally make people disappear for criticizing their regime (or in the case of tennis player Peng Shuai; a kind of hostage situation that is far creepier than even Matt Gaetz).

You simply want American racism to be treated as a phantom concern. It's not. BTW I think filghy answered your request for info about institutional racism in America quite well. A shame you ignored it.

I am not sure whether the model minority discussion is a virtue signaling device but I think it doesn't really make sense. If someone told me they were merely criticizing Jews as opposed to complimenting us I would also be confused because it's unclear what one means when they compliment a group. If someone said Jews are good at accounting, should a Jew who is bad at accounting feel flattered? I do think the point of it is to pretend that prejudice against other groups is conditioned on their behavior and not something that begins with assumptions and malice.

[Nick Danger]

I've planned to go to Israel but have never actually been. I've heard that there is a lot of racism there, not just in their human rights violations against Palestinians but also in Israeli society. Problems with racism in Israel wouldn't signify racism is not a problem here. Nor would it mean I have to make any assumptions about random Israelis or Americans I meet.

I have by the way been irritated by other countries calling out racism in the U.S. when it's obvious they're hypocritical or just being opportunistic. Have you seen the Iranian Ayatollah on twitter? You think I give a shit about what he has to say about anything? Do you think I give a shit about what Putin says about human rights or whatever idiot mouthpiece the People's Republic of China has talking when they literally make people disappear for criticizing their regime (or in the case of tennis player Peng Shuai; a kind of hostage situation that is far creepier than even Matt Gaetz).

You simply want American racism to be treated as a phantom concern. It's not. BTW I think filghy answered your request for info about institutional racism in America quite well. A shame you ignored it.

I am not sure whether the model minority discussion is a virtue signaling device but I think it doesn't really make sense. If someone told me they were merely criticizing Jews as opposed to complimenting us I would also be confused because it's unclear what one means when they compliment a group. If someone said Jews are good at accounting, should a Jew who is bad at accounting feel flattered? I do think the point of it is to pretend that prejudice against other groups is conditioned on their behavior and not something that begins with assumptions and malice.

What is a phantom concern? One that goes unaddressed? We have addressed the racism issue, Bronco.

The 13th Amendment. The 14th Amendment. The 15th Amendment. The Civil Rights Acts of 1870, 1871, 1875, 1957, 1960, 1964, 1965, 1987, and 1991. The Voting Rights Act. The Fair Housing Act. All in the interest of (progressively) helping black people prosper in the USA. But we're there now. Black leaders looked at the overall situation in 1991 and said, "Okay, no more legislation could possibly make things any better for black people." If they wanted more they'd have gotten more. The real question though...IS there anymore? What else can we possibly do for black people? Cash payout? Apparently that's on the table.

Can't stop private individuals from being racist, obviously. But according to all that legislation, if you are a black man in this country and you are treated any differently than a white man is treated, you are now set for life, as soon as you win your lawsuit. Pretty sweet deal IMHO.

Not sure what Flighty linked that served as evidence of systemic racism. Crime numbers don't demonstrate anything except the fact that blacks commit more crimes than whites. And really, Bronco, if it were just statistics, I might be open to questioning them. But I've also contended with black criminality in real life on real time, and I know from personal experience that blacks commit more crimes than whites. A good portion of the black population simply does not give a shit about the law - open defiance of it is all they really respect. Thanks, rap music.

No assumptions here, Bronco. No malice. Just real talk about black people and their propensity to engage in criminal behavior. Any discussion that sweeps that subject under the carpet is not a real discussion about racism, it's lip service.

[filghy2]

America has a history of racism. So does every other fucking country on the planet. You want to talk about racist countries, let's talk about Israel. Japan, China, both Koreas, every Middle Eastern country, so racist and so completely uncriticized for it.

That is obviously untrue. Israel gets of lot of criticism for its treatment of Palestinians, as does China for its treatment of Uighurs.

More to the point, can you name any other developed democracy in which a large part of he country maintained an apartheid system up to the 1960s, or where police turned a blind eye to whites murdering blacks (or were involved themselves)? Not only that, but the rest of the country largely tolerated this situation until the 1950s. This is not ancient history - it was within your lifetime, I assume. No, the US is not like every other country.

[filghy2]

The alphabet agencies are a free-for-all these days. Whether or not you're a terrorist, criminal, or seditionist depends entirely on the political affiliation of the goon helming the agency. Interesting choice to capitalize "Homeland," has kind of a Fourth Reich feel to it.

Nice try, but the document was dated October 2020, so the person in charge was a Trump appointee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Wolf

[Nick Danger]

That is obviously untrue. Israel gets of lot of criticism for its treatment of Palestinians, as does China for its treatment of Uighurs.

More to the point, can you name any other developed democracy in which a large part of he country maintained an apartheid system up to the 1960s, or where police turned a blind eye to whites murdering blacks (or were involved themselves)? Not only that, but the rest of the country largely tolerated this situation until the 1950s. This is not ancient history - it was within your lifetime, I assume. No, the US is not like every other country.

You're right, Flighty, racism has happened in my lifetime. When I was a kid in the 70's there was a family of long-unemployed black sharecroppers living in the woods behind my house in a tar-paper shack, surviving off the land and out of people's garbage. I was friends with their kid, his dad had a huge oil barrel full of porn mags and didn't care if we sat on the porch and read them. "Mixing" was discouraged by most parents, mine included, blacks were widely viewed as inferior humans. There was a carved wooden sign nailed to a tree beside a one-lane bridge leading into a particular part of one community near my neighborhood that said "N***** don't let the sun set on your black ass around here." "Negro" was the politically-correct term for black people.

But that's all changed, Flighty. Lawd have mercy we have seen the light! You can't treat people that way. Not and expect them to like you anyway. Racism has been outlawed. And rightfully so.

So now what? As you say, it isn't ancient history, but it's been 30 years now since the last time black leaders and white leaders looked at the situation from the legislative perspective and decided we're being more than fair to blacks now. There's genuinely not much more we can do for them besides free money, free food, free housing, free education, preferred treatment in the workplace, and tightly-enforced legal protection against discrimination. I suppose it's possible enough time hasn't passed. But to me the situation seems to be deteriorating rather than getting better.

And this problem - that there's nothing more we can do for blacks - has become a real problem now for progressives. Defunding the police is a strong example of a very warped political perspective - blacks are having problems with the criminal justice system so the criminal justice system needs to adjust? Instead of taking the problem to the black community and demanding less crime, we are allowing the progressive community to come to us and demand less enforcement? Is this really where we're at in the race negotiations now - "Let us commit more crimes!?" Or have we, in fact, long ago passed the point of negotiations, having already reached a more-than-fair agreement, and are now entering the realm of lunacy?

You're right about one thing - the USA certainly has its own brand of black people. But they are starting to lose my attention, I have more important matters to attend, and black people are not my problem. For the most part they are their own problem.

Nice try, but the document was dated October 2020, so the person in charge was a Trump appointee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Wolf

Interesting. Less than a month before he was declared an unlawful appointee.