Covid-19 Politics

[filghy2]

All you're witnessing, Flighty, when you see a world in decline, AKA a world full of liberal shitholes, is the end result of corporate greed.

Sorry, I'm confused. I thought that corporate greed was the foundation of your wonderful capitalist system, which is why you don't need government. If you don't want an economy based on corporate greed, does this mean you are becoming a socialist? You can't be capitalist anyway, because that's a system based on corporate greed by definition.

If you are against both capitalism and socialism, that seems to leave only one obvious alternative, does it not?

[filghy2]

I got nothing except to reiterate filghy's points here. Address his questions about the cold, about the burdens of mask wearing

Expecting him to do that really would fit his definition of insanity. Dodge and deflect, as usual.

Meanwhile daily deaths in Australia have risen to over 20, which is about the highest they've been (apart from 2 days in 2020). At the same time, most restrictions have been removed and there is no talk of going back to lockdowns. That is understandable and probably inevitable, but it does mean that Australia is going to look more like most other countries.

In bizarro world, of course, this is all proof that restrictions don't work and that governments are so addicted to them they can never stop.

[Stavros]

Arriving back in the UK has been a useful comparative exercise. The day before departure from Germany, we went to a DIY store but as my companion was in need of a new Covid test to enter the restaurant we were going to in the evening (the DIY store is exempt) , we both had a lateral flow test in the testing centre outside. As it then transpired, when I checkd in at the Lufthansa desk, I needed my Covid Pass, and the Passenger Locator Form (filled out online at least 2 days before departure), and a negative Lateral Flow Test [LFT] result not more than 48 hours old. I had not been told I needed the latter, so I don't know what would have happened had I not had one the day before.

Before arriving in the UK, I booked an LFT online -the package was delivered the day I arrived- which I need to complete no more than 2 days after arrival. Moreover, because the LFT is done by a private company not the NHS it cost me £19 (22.80 Euros or $25.91). On arrival at the regional airport I used, there were no staff at passport control but biometric machines, so no questions to answer or documents to show. I have done the test and sent the results online, but there is no way they know it was in fact me other than my declaration. Someone else could have done the test knowing they were negative and sent that.

The Germans have test centres all over the place, and it is free. The test resuts can be sent by phone, whereas the one I had the day before my departure was a document with an official stamp and signature. And, just as masks are de rigeur even in some major streets, the regulations here are quite poor in comparison. We may be heading towards the end of the worst of this pandemic, but I still wonder who has the best policy.

And definitely, travellers should ensure they know what documents they need before they fly -I assume it would be similar on the Eurostar or other rail, and road connections. It does take time, it does require a computer and even better, a smart phone, but it is worth it if you need, or want to travel. And of course for so many connections online, user IDs and those damn passwords....

[Nick Danger]

Arriving back in the UK has been a useful comparative exercise. The day before departure from Germany, we went to a DIY store but as my companion was in need of a new Covid test to enter the restaurant we were going to in the evening (the DIY store is exempt) , we both had a lateral flow test in the testing centre outside. As it then transpired, when I checkd in at the Lufthansa desk, I needed my Covid Pass, and the Passenger Locator Form (filled out online at least 2 days before departure), and a negative Lateral Flow Test [LFT] result not more than 48 hours old. I had not been told I needed the latter, so I don't know what would have happened had I not had one the day before.

Before arriving in the UK, I booked an LFT online -the package was delivered the day I arrived- which I need to complete no more than 2 days after arrival. Moreover, because the LFT is done by a private company not the NHS it cost me £19 (22.80 Euros or $25.91). On arrival at the regional airport I used, there were no staff at passport control but biometric machines, so no questions to answer or documents to show. I have done the test and sent the results online, but there is no way they know it was in fact me other than my declaration. Someone else could have done the test knowing they were negative and sent that.

The Germans have test centres all over the place, and it is free. The test resuts can be sent by phone, whereas the one I had the day before my departure was a document with an official stamp and signature. And, just as masks are de rigeur even in some major streets, the regulations here are quite poor in comparison. We may be heading towards the end of the worst of this pandemic, but I still wonder who has the best policy.

And definitely, travellers should ensure they know what documents they need before they fly -I assume it would be similar on the Eurostar or other rail, and road connections. It does take time, it does require a computer and even better, a smart phone, but it is worth it if you need, or want to travel. And of course for so many connections online, user IDs and those damn passwords....

Stavros, that is without question the single most useful thing you've ever said. THANK YOU for that information, I'll be using it in a few weeks. It's a shame you won't still be around, I'd buy you a beer. Or ten.

[Stavros]

Vaccinations are freedom. Tests are freedom. Masks are freedom.

die Wahrheit lebt in der Täuschung fort

[Nick Danger]

Yet another long-winded answer that completely failed to address the point. You are like a politician, addressing the point you want to make rather than the one that was put to you.

FYI, rich folks are clearly more likely to vote Republican. Voters with incomes over $100,000 went for Trump 54:42 in the last election. You are conveniently forgetting all the filthy rich businessmen who support Trump, eg the Murdochs, the Koch brothers, the Mercers.
https://abcnews.go.com/Elections/exi...sults-analysis

Here's the point that you obviously have no answer to. If your views are just common sense and it's only rich liberals distorting things, then how come most people in the rest of the world don't agree with you? If the US is the exception then which is more likely - the US is weird or that all those other countries are weird? It can't be a coincidence that only in the US is half the population being fed a steady diet of lies by right-wing media.

You are like a fascinating anthropological study to me because we don't have many lunatics like you in Australia (eg 95% of adults here are vaccinated). Or maybe it's like discovering an alternative universe where everything is the opposite of the normal universe.

Of course rich folks vote Republican. They didn't get rich by being stupid.

You need to open your mind, Flighty, be more like me. See, when I look around and I see things happening like, oh, perfect example, the recent "voting rights issues" uh, thingie, dealie, whatever it is, with the Democrats. "Voting is hard!" said no one, ever. "It's important that illegal immigrants be allowed to vote," said those same non-existent people. When I see my President screaming about this absolute non-issue like he's Martin Luther King on crack, I don't shut down like you do. I know - reitereate, I KNOW - that voting is not a problem in this country. You register. You vote. It's not complicated, not difficult in any way whatsoever. Hell, it's not even time-consuming, the longest line I've ever stood in to vote was like 3 people, and I've voted all over this great country. If you want a mail-in ballot, all you have to do is ask for one. The only possible motive for acting as if there is an actual voting rights problem in this country is if you're looking to rig an election or two because nobody likes you.

Or when I hear there's systemic racism against blacks in the USA when the exact opposite is the truth. Or that there are 72 different genders. Or when half the country seems eerily fine with being locked down for years over a non-emergency like Covid. Or when doing away with the police becomes a matter of serious discussion. Or when we vote Mister Magoo into the White House. You know, just absolute BATSHIT INSANE stuff - when I hear it, I don't shut down. I open up. I think harder. There HAS to be a reason so many people are talking like lunatics but somehow not getting the treatment they so desperately need. There's got to be...something...I'm missing.

The reason is as stated. Giant corporations controlling the narrative via the media THEY OWN, looking to lock down their monopolies by pushing progressivism as if it's sane, and getting regulation-happy liberals elected to office - a simple, easily understood explanation for why the VERY richest people seem to have suddenly lost their minds.

I'm not going to keep defending my ideas to you, Flighty, it's hilarious that you act as if I'm the one who has some explaining to do. How about if YOU explain why we voted in a Democratic President, a Democratic House, a Democratic Senate, and the country is almost immediately at its most-totally-fucked level of the last 50 years. God-mode: Don't blame the previous administration.

Expecting him to do that really would fit his definition of insanity. Dodge and deflect, as usual.

Meanwhile daily deaths in Australia have risen to over 20, which is about the highest they've been (apart from 2 days in 2020). At the same time, most restrictions have been removed and there is no talk of going back to lockdowns. That is understandable and probably inevitable, but it does mean that Australia is going to look more like most other countries.

In bizarro world, of course, this is all proof that restrictions don't work and that governments are so addicted to them they can never stop.

And guess what we're doing about that, Flighty. Nothing. Because nothing is what works. Nothing is what Donald Trump said would work, and what Joe Biden is now having to acknowledge will work. Nothing at all. And in a couple weeks, it will ALL BE OVER. Oh, not the restrictions and the fearmongering and the pharmaceutical disinformation, just the slight cold that's going around.

20 people a day. What a fucking bunch of pussies. Don't grown men have any shame anymore?

[Nick Danger]

Vaccinations are freedom. Tests are freedom. Masks are freedom.

die Wahrheit lebt in der Täuschung fort

Stavros, you're demonstrating some real character. You're not all angry and hostile about the virus. You sincerely want people to wear masks and get vaccinated, and even though I disagree with you, I respect the fact that you have put enough thought into the matter to come up with an actual sales pitch, and not a bad one - instead of just being a basic bitch about it like everyone else. I'm getting vaccinated today BTW.

[broncofan]

Stavros, you're demonstrating some real character. You're not all angry and hostile about the virus. You sincerely want people to wear masks and get vaccinated, and even though I disagree with you, I respect the fact that you have put enough thought into the matter to come up with an actual sales pitch, and not a bad one - instead of just being a basic bitch about it like everyone else. I'm getting vaccinated today BTW.

Let us know if you get just the sore arm or anything like a headache (which is what I got). I know two shots will not prevent infection with omicron but the next variant might not come from that lineage and the more (acquired) immunity your body has to the virus the better chance you have of blocking infection. For every variant we've seen it makes it less likely you end up in the hospital and like I said maybe we get unlucky and an even deadlier variant comes along that could challenge your badass immune system. Even a strong immune system gets stronger by learning, so a sneak peak of coming attractions will only prime you for the future. Have a good time in Germany. I've only been to Munich but that was a great time....

[broncofan]

And guess what we're doing about that, Flighty. Nothing. Because nothing is what works. Nothing is what Donald Trump said would work, and what Joe Biden is now having to acknowledge will work. Nothing at all. And in a couple weeks, it will ALL BE OVER. Oh, not the restrictions and the fearmongering and the pharmaceutical disinformation, just the slight cold that's going around.

20 people a day. What a fucking bunch of pussies. Don't grown men have any shame anymore?

The current variant is very different than the virus that emerged in Wuhan. That's not an excuse. Delta provided problems that the original virus did not. Had delta been in circulation in 2020 we'd have been much worse off as it was much more transmissible and also more deadly. In contrast, had delta not emerged when it did, even our meager vaccination program here was quashing cases very quickly, breakthroughs were pretty rare, and people would not have gotten boosted as early as they did.

Omicron has an intrinsic virulence that makes it still deadlier than the flu but less deadly than any other sars2 descended variant. We do go about our business during flu season and even I (a lunger who has been put in the hospital every decade of his life by the flu) do not change my behavior during flu season, except to get a flu shot most years. What to do with some protection against omicron? I'm less worried, but I still don't see the difficulty in wearing a mask. I just worry less.

Pfizer is coming out with an omicron specific vaccine. It's not clear who will get it, though people over 65 should, and I think people generally should because you protect yourself against omicron and anything descended from it. The fact is that when scientists did assays the antibodies our bodies produce in response to the original spike protein were not very good at recognizing the altered spike of omicron. So only really high titers of antibodies made any difference in preventing infection and if we see viruses derived from omicron it would be better to have a broadening of antibody response.

Finally, with deaths what matters is the marginal impact of our choices. Everyone who dies has people who love them and probably enjoys their life, so it seems callous not to take very minor steps to protect other people. It's easy to trivialize death on a mass scale because so many people die every year and the fact is that everybody dies. But nobody wants to die 5 years early or 10 years early or 30 years early. The way people die from covid is especially painful in many cases. This is what er doctors and nurses who are by the bedside of the convalescent have said. The point isn't that we can prevent all pain and suffering in the world, but some of us wonder why we don't prevent what we can when it comes at a very minor cost, like wearing a mask or getting a shot that can help.

[Stavros]

Finally, with deaths what matters is the marginal impact of our choices. Everyone who dies has people who love them and probably enjoys their life, so it seems callous not to take very minor steps to protect other people. It's easy to trivialize death on a mass scale because so many people die every year and the fact is that everybody dies. But nobody wants to die 5 years early or 10 years early or 30 years early. The way people die from covid is especially painful in many cases. This is what er doctors and nurses who are by the bedside of the convalescent have said. The point isn't that we can prevent all pain and suffering in the world, but some of us wonder why we don't prevent what we can when it comes at a very minor cost, like wearing a mask or getting a shot that can help.

One of the best things I have read on Covid, so thanks for sharing it with us.

Also eloquent, Rory Kinnear's account of his sister's death, on the same day of that 'BYOB' party Boris Johnson claims was a working meeting. There are times when the simple eloquence of truth demolishes the pretentious rubbish we hear from elected politicians, no matter where they are.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-buried-sister