For Fuck Sakes

[Birgitta]

There is nothing "traditional" or conventional about acting on attraction to ts girls. If there were, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. At least in the States, no matter how traditional your sexual roles may be with your ts girlfriend, most people will still see you as deviant for being with her.

I know but thats beside the point

[loveboof]

I know but thats beside the point

(please dont overlook my last comment, I know this is a fast moving thread, but I'd like to see what you have to say about that)

I don't think it is beside the point at all. What nicebrn was hinting at is cultural and moral relavitism.

In Ancient Greece (for eg), there was nothing un-masculine about 'gay' sexual acts. Society's values are ever evolving!

[Birgitta]

I think the definition of being fem is the ability to scratch ones butt on a crowded train without anyone noticing,, Masculine people just scratch their butt without a care.

Whahahahaha ! Loool

[Birgitta]

Personally I am more than happy to accept that an act such as penetration involves a decision process, where as a penis is just a body part.

But then we have to concede that it is the decision involved in that action which is the most important defining feature of whether it is masculine or not...

This means we are no longer dealing in absolute facts - but intentions.

Which inevitably means the action is defined by the person not the other way round!

I dont really get this..
I think i agree with what you say...
But the moment you act its a fact

The person is defined by actions

[Jericho]

I'm a top and a bottom..I love being versatile!

Although I must admit I prefer bottoming - only cause I can cum multiple times in a row off that. (milking the prostate)

Topping you can usually cum once and then wait a few minutes then go again.

But I love fucking females and I love fucking a hot muscular bottom

I personally love sex..and what I have downstairs doesn't make me less feminine.

Or using it make me less feminine.

I never have thought with my dick lol

It certainly hasn't made my PERSONALITY or I would act a lot different!

I think it's so ridiculous some of the statements from the men and transwomen on this site!

The prejudice from both sides is stupid.

Sex is meant to be enjoyed...What happens in the bedroom is all about satisfaction.

It doesn't make you who you are!!! SEX = SATISFACTION! And there seems to be a lot of unsatisfied people in this world - due to cheating and hiding things you are into!

I know some of the manliest rugged men who have strong personalities who are total bottoms. Nobody would guess ever they would be bottoms. Keep in mind though you can bottom and still be manly. It's not like he has to start sashaying around the room or some crap!

I know girly gay boys who are total tops! And you would never guess they'd be dominate like that.

Sometimes people are tops, because ANAL SEX isn't enjoyable for them. It hurts! It's not PLEASURABLE FOR THEM. Some people's asses are more sensitive than others.

And a lot of men are bottoms with transwomen, because if they want to fuck - they can just go fuck a pussy?!? So this is something new for them!

I know lots of my stripper friends love strapping on a big strap on and fucking their men in the ass. And the men would never be with a transsexual or a man. But love anal stimulation.

The ass has tons of feel good nerve endings and milking the prostate is the most amazing feeling!

So get off your soapbox that someone is less feminine or less manly because they enjoys something in particular to get them off in the bedroom.

Or it makes them less of a woman!

FOR FUCK SAKES!

I know this is hard for many transwomen to believe..but a lot of men prefer PUSSY over ASS...and they get with a transwoman because she looks every bit of a girl and like some anal play...

I know this is hard for many MEN to believe, but a lot of us don't include sex to define our GENDER. So some transsexuals are bi (myself), lesbian/gay, or straight. Just like any other female!

So why don't you say the same crap to an attractive female who is only into females.

"That you shouldn't of been born if you are only into females."

The audacity of you to tell someone they shouldn't of transitioned if they wont SERVICE you men! Is disgusting!

PHEW!

Just shake it you old bitch, i'd do you!

[Birgitta]

Just shake it you old bitch, i'd do you!

Shut up you drunk ! Lol

[nicebrn]

(please dont overlook my last comment, I know this is a fast moving thread, but I'd like to see what you have to say about that)

I don't think it is beside the point at all. What nicebrn was hinting at is cultural and moral relavitism.

In Ancient Greece (for eg), there was nothing un-masculine about 'gay' sexual acts. Society's values are ever evolving!

Absolutely--that is indeed where I was going.

And a few hundred miles away in Rome, it was the opposite. Julius Caesar might have been the manliest of men, but if he was ravished by the pirates who tried to ransom him (as legend has it), Roman society would have viewed him as effeminate.

I'm going to make a strong claim and assert that all these standards are arbitrary...especially in the modern era. You can make the claim that God ordained these standards, but then that leads back to say, the Holiness Code's injunction against crossdressing (crossdressing wasn't inherently sinful, but it was contrary to the Law because it violated the divinely-established gender roles for the Israelites). The primary reason why many of them continue to endure is through sheer societal inertia.

[Birgitta]

Absolutely--that is indeed where I was going.

And a few hundred miles away in Rome, it was the opposite. Julius Caesar might have been the manliest of men, but if he was ravished by the pirates who tried to ransom him (as legend has it), Roman society would have viewed him as effeminate.

I'm going to make a strong claim and assert that all these standards are arbitrary...especially in the modern era. You can make the claim that God ordained these standards, but then that leads back to say, Holiness Code's injunction against crossdressing (crossdressing wasn't inherently sinful, but it was contrary to the Law because it violated the divinely-established gender roles for the Israelites). The primary reason why many of them continue to endure is through sheer societal inertia.

Great i can return to living as a guy eureka ! Im arbitrary anyway so why bother lol

[loveboof]

I dont really get this..
I think i agree with what you say...
But the moment you act its a fact

The person is defined by actions

You believe that the act of penetration is inherently masculine, but that a person is not necessarily male just because they have a penis. So what is causing this masculinity if not the penis?

You inevitably have to concede that under your position something else has to be defining masculinity.

As you said, an action involves a decision. You have to choose to commit it. So this means that the deciding factor behind whether the action is masculine or not comes from the person. Their intentions behind the action.

You can say that I am masculine if I go round fighting, fucking, and scratching my arse. But these are relative values - they are not absolute. They do not make a man. Just as makeup, nagging, and enjoying shopping doesn't make a woman...

[Birgitta]

You believe that the act of penetration is inherently masculine, but that a person is not necessarily male just because they have a penis. So what is causing this masculinity if not the penis?

You inevitably have to concede that under your position something else has to be defining masculinity.

As you said, an action involves a decision. You have to choose to commit it. So this means that the deciding factor behind whether the action is masculine or not comes from the person. Their intentions behind the action.

You can say that I am masculine if I go round fighting, fucking, and scratching my arse. But these are relative values - they are not absolute. They do not make a man. Just as makeup, nagging, and enjoying shopping doesn't make a woman...

Is it really that hard to believe penetration is a masculine act ?